Discussion:
Adding brakes to 8ft Flagstaff
(too old to reply)
s***@users.sf.net
2004-06-22 01:04:42 UTC
Permalink
I'm looking to buy my first pop-up. The tow vehicle is a 97 Plymouth
Grand Voyager minivan with the 3.3 Liter engine, and the towing
package. I bought this van used a few years back, and it came with a
brake controller.

I know this isn't much of a tow vehicle, so I want to keep the pop-up
as small as possible. I'm looking at a brand new 8' bed Flagstaff (by
Forest River, who also produces the exact same trailer under the
Rockwood label). Dry weight is approximately 1300 pounds.

We really like this trailer, and can get it for the unbelievable
price of $4,100, which includes a 3-way fridge, furnace, heated
mattress pads, etc. (In comparison, the going rate for 8ft trailers
similarly equipped seems to be $5,500 to $6,000 in this area.) The
reason for the "fire sale" pricing is that this well-established
trailer dealer wants to get out of the pop-up business to concentrate
on what they do best - heavy duty horse trailers, toy haulers, and
utility trailers. This pop-up is the last on the lot, and the last
they'll ever sell.

Trouble is, the pop-up has no electric brakes. I've learned from
reading thru this group that brakes are a GOOD THING, and I don't need
to be convinced.

This trailer expert of course is telling me that he's never heard of
anyone putting brakes on such a small trailer. He's checked the axle
on the pop-up and confirmed it will need a new axle that will accept
the brakes. Presumably he will order the axle from the
manufacturer(?).

But then he's saying that he would definitely not go with a 7" brake.
(He says a 7" brake is pretty useless - if he's going to put brakes on
this trailer, he'll put on effective brakes.) He's going to research
it, but he thinks he'd go with larger wheels - to 13" from the stock
12" - in order to accomodate a larger brake.

He's going to research all this and let me know what can be done in a
day or two. Even if it costs $600 to install a new axle with brakes
on this trailer, which is his guestimate, the price still would be
almost a $1000 less than any of the competition.

In your experience, should I:

A) Buy the trailer at $4,100 and find someone else to do the brakes.

B) Let this trailer guy do what he thinks is best regarding wheel size
and brake size and trust him to do the right thing.

C) Forget the whole thing and buy a similar trailer with factory
installed brakes for between $5,500 and $6,000


If A, where in the world can I find someone who can install brakes on
the new Flagstaff? Flagstaff/Rockwood dealers are almost non-existent
in this area.

B worries me too, because the trailer-guy is telling me he's never
seen brakes on such a small trailer. I'm a bit worried that if
there's a problem, he'll give a big "I told you so", instead of
support. On the other hand, they seem like completely honest people
who've been in the trailer business for over 30 years, and who are
running a thriving business.

Thanks in advance...
Jim Redelfs
2004-06-22 02:08:02 UTC
Permalink
Post by s***@users.sf.net
Trouble is, the pop-up has no electric brakes. I've learned from
reading thru this group that brakes are a GOOD THING, and I don't need
to be convinced.
Trailer brakes are ALWAYS a good thing, but not absolutely necessary under
certain conditions. In your case, given your tow vehicle, they could
certainly be a VERY valuable safety accessory.
Post by s***@users.sf.net
This trailer expert of course is telling me that he's never heard of
anyone putting brakes on such a small trailer.
Tell him that Fleetwood has been including electric brakes on their ENTIRE
line of popup campers (8-footers included) for several years.
Post by s***@users.sf.net
He's checked the axle on the pop-up and confirmed it will need a new
axle that will accept the brakes.
Oops. Big bux. :(
Post by s***@users.sf.net
he's saying that he would definitely not go with a 7" brake.
Good for him. That size of brake on a 12-inch wheel is worthless. Convert it
to 13-inch wheels and it's worse.

My 1987 Starcraft Galaxy had 7-inch brakes on 12-inch wheels. I could almost
feel something happening back there if I grabbed the brake controller's manual
slider, applying FULL (emergency) brakes. When I converted the trailer to
13-inch wheels (same bolt pattern, etc., as the 12-inch), there was virtually
NO braking effect to be felt AT ALL.

I suspect that, if the trailer ever separated from the hitch, pulling the
breakaway pin, the trailer would eventually coast to a stop perhaps a few feet
sooner than if it had NO brakes at all.
Post by s***@users.sf.net
(He says a 7" brake is pretty useless - if he's going to put brakes on
this trailer, he'll put on effective brakes.)
This is very refreshing AND revealing: He's right.
Post by s***@users.sf.net
he thinks he'd go with larger wheels - to 13" from the stock
12" - in order to accomodate a larger brake.
I had to replace the wheelwells on my Starcraft when I did that. More money.
Post by s***@users.sf.net
He's going to research all this and let me know what can be done in a
day or two. Even if it costs $600 to install a new axle with brakes
on this trailer, which is his guestimate, the price still would be
almost a $1000 less than any of the competition.
If he does it for $600 including parts and labor, that's pretty reasonable,
IMHO.
Post by s***@users.sf.net
A) Buy the trailer at $4,100 and find someone else to do the brakes.
If you choose this route, I would have that dealer do the work. He sounds
honest AND informed and probably VERY experienced.
Post by s***@users.sf.net
B) Let this trailer guy do what he thinks is best regarding wheel size
and brake size and trust him to do the right thing.
Yes. (See above)
Post by s***@users.sf.net
C) Forget the whole thing and buy a similar trailer with factory
installed brakes for between $5,500 and $6,000
Only you can get a FIRM bid from your dealer for the proposed modifications.
Remember that the wheelwells may have to be enlarged/replaced to accomodate
larger wheels. Be sure that that contingency is included in ANY firm bid.

FWIW: 13-inch wheels are MUCH better than 12-inchers for any number of
reasons, not the least of which is AVAILABILITY should you have a tire failure
and need to buy a replacement in the middle of nowhere. They also usually
operate at a lower pressure and have a higher load rating.
Post by s***@users.sf.net
If A, where in the world can I find someone who can install brakes on
the new Flagstaff? Flagstaff/Rockwood dealers are almost non-existent
in this area.
If this guy is an authorized Flagstaff dealer, he could do it. If you are
buying a *NEW* trailer, be sure to get - IN WRITING - the effect, if any, on
warranty coverage of your intended modifications.
Post by s***@users.sf.net
B worries me too, because the trailer-guy is telling me he's never
seen brakes on such a small trailer. I'm a bit worried that if
there's a problem, he'll give a big "I told you so", instead of
support.
What problem? Too MUCH brakes? That's not a problem, it's a "feature"!! It
can be controlled (mitigated) by the brake controller or other devices.
Post by s***@users.sf.net
On the other hand, they seem like completely honest people
who've been in the trailer business for over 30 years, and who are
running a thriving business.
Ask him to order ONE LAST popup: One with brakes from the factory. It's
still spring: He'll have NO TROUBLE selling the one WITHOUT brakes to someone
else, especially at the low price he's asking.

Trailer brakes are a GREAT thing to have when you have the whole fam damily
(sic) in the tow vehicle and some idiot pulls a panic stop right in front of
you.

Adding brakes to the trailer in question will be expensive. Only you,
however, can determine if the cost is acceptable. The trailer guy sounds like
the one to do it in any case.

Good luck! Let us know what you do.

:)
JR
--
2000 Skamper Ultra 249 TT
2002 Chevrolet Silverado 2500HD
Vortec 8100 - Allison 1000
s***@users.sf.net
2004-06-22 17:31:34 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jim Redelfs
Good luck! Let us know what you do.
Well... it's been taken out of my hands. Someone else, who will take
it without brakes, put a deposit on the trailer today :-(

So I called yet another dealer (Viking this time) only to be told
yet-again, that they don't carry any 8 or 10 ft boxes with brakes
because you don't need them. (sigh)

For the record, I've contacted every RV dealer within 100 mile radius
of Springfield MA to find someone who can sell me a lightweight 8 or
10 foot box with factory installed electric brakes - that's at least
six, and maybe as many as 8 or 9 dealers. Every last one of them has
never heard of such a thing. One said he can order one, but it won't
be here until late summer.

According to dealers in CT and NH, the laws there don't require brakes
for trailers weighing under 3,000 lbs. Maybe I'll start calling NY
state dealers. I think I read on this list that the law requires
trailer brakes for much lower weights. This is frustrating....
William Vojak
2004-06-22 20:01:12 UTC
Permalink
Post by s***@users.sf.net
For the record, I've contacted every RV dealer within 100 mile radius
of Springfield MA to find someone who can sell me a lightweight 8 or
10 foot box with factory installed electric brakes
Look for a Coleman/Fleetwood dealer. . . They will ONLY
sell a trailer with brakes. Just looked at a Taos and
a Tucson. Both 8', both with brakes. Both had a heater,
and a few other options, + brake controller + installation.
Taos was $6K Tucson was $6.5K (it adds a fridge). Both
were brand new, 2004 models.

Bill Vojak
Ned Forrester
2004-06-23 16:13:34 UTC
Permalink
In article <***@posting.google.com>,
***@users.sf.net writes:
|> Jim Redelfs <***@redelfs.com> wrote in message news:<jim.redelfs-***@news.west.cox.net>...
|>
|> > Good luck! Let us know what you do.
|> >
|>
|>
|> So I called yet another dealer (Viking this time) only to be told
|> yet-again, that they don't carry any 8 or 10 ft boxes with brakes
|> because you don't need them. (sigh)
|>
|> For the record, I've contacted every RV dealer within 100 mile radius
|> of Springfield MA to find someone who can sell me a lightweight 8 or
|> 10 foot box with factory installed electric brakes - that's at least
|> six, and maybe as many as 8 or 9 dealers. Every last one of them has
|> never heard of such a thing. One said he can order one, but it won't
|> be here until late summer.
|>
|> According to dealers in CT and NH, the laws there don't require brakes
|> for trailers weighing under 3,000 lbs. Maybe I'll start calling NY
|> state dealers. I think I read on this list that the law requires
|> trailer brakes for much lower weights. This is frustrating....

I missed the start of this thread, but perhaps this is relevant. When
I was in the market for a used popup a few years ago, I figured that
it would come without brakes, so I looked into the cost of adding
them. A Dexter dealer in New Beford, MA quoted me a replacement
axle with brakes, and if memory serves it was about $250-300, for the
axle. I think it would have been easy to install. In the end, the
popup I bought from NH (10ft, '95 Starcraft Starflyer), had an axle
with brakes, but they had never been hooked up! I mean that there was
no frame wiring for them and the magnet leads were tied off behind
each wheel. I suppose Starcraft installed whatever axle was available
at the time of manufacture.

Another possibility is that the axle will have the four-hole
attachement plates for the brakes, in which case you only need to buy
the brakes themselves.
--
NOTE: to reply, remove all punctuation from email name field

Ned Forrester ***@whoi.edu 508-289-2226
Applied Ocean Physics and Engineering Dept.
Oceanographic Systems Lab http://adcp.whoi.edu/
Woods Hole Oceanographic Institution, Woods Hole, MA 02543, USA
Chris Cowles
2004-07-12 00:26:35 UTC
Permalink
Stick to your plan of getting a trailer with brakes. I pulled an older
(lighter) Coleman with a Plymouth Voyager. Burned out two transmissions in
the process despite being within specs. I didn't have brakes and, in
retrospect, it was a Dumb Idea. I'm now pulling a recent Coleman that weighs
~3K fully loaded, using a Chevy Astro as a tow vehicle. Very happy to have
brakes. It's a comforting feeling when someone pulls out in front of you.

Chris Cowles
Gainesville, FL
Post by s***@users.sf.net
...
So I called yet another dealer (Viking this time) only to be told
yet-again, that they don't carry any 8 or 10 ft boxes with brakes because
you don't need them. (sigh)

cadet 4
2004-06-25 05:49:37 UTC
Permalink
I also thought all Flagstaff pop ups had brakes already?

Here are some links to look around your area for the closest dealers

Vertually the same campers......
www.clipperrv.com
www.vikingrv.com
www.palominorv.com

I recently just bought a 2004 Palomino 280 Pony with an 8ft box.. I got
it at a great price because the dealer is making room for his ew 2004
series. I got it for $3999 but only had an ice-box..... I removed the
ice box and installled a small IGLOO fridge myself for $59

The Clipper, Viking and Palamino all looked similar with some better
features thain the longrun I felt would be better. There is another
place I found while searching where you can order a camper and they will
ship it directly to you for only an extra $250. Most places you pay for
the shipping to the dealer anyway. They were also very reasoable in
price. Located in Dayton, OH,,, Name began with an "S.... but I can't
recall it.. search the web for rv or Clipper and you should find it..

Good luck.. BRAKES are always good.. I am planning on having them
installed on my Palomino ..
spanky
2004-06-27 03:01:44 UTC
Permalink
I have a 12 ft trailer palomino no brakes Im in the mountains of Virginia no
probs...only if you get into the 2300 lbs wieght range dont waste your money
Post by s***@users.sf.net
I'm looking to buy my first pop-up. The tow vehicle is a 97 Plymouth
Grand Voyager minivan with the 3.3 Liter engine, and the towing
package. I bought this van used a few years back, and it came with a
brake controller.
I know this isn't much of a tow vehicle, so I want to keep the pop-up
as small as possible. I'm looking at a brand new 8' bed Flagstaff (by
Forest River, who also produces the exact same trailer under the
Rockwood label). Dry weight is approximately 1300 pounds.
We really like this trailer, and can get it for the unbelievable
price of $4,100, which includes a 3-way fridge, furnace, heated
mattress pads, etc. (In comparison, the going rate for 8ft trailers
similarly equipped seems to be $5,500 to $6,000 in this area.) The
reason for the "fire sale" pricing is that this well-established
trailer dealer wants to get out of the pop-up business to concentrate
on what they do best - heavy duty horse trailers, toy haulers, and
utility trailers. This pop-up is the last on the lot, and the last
they'll ever sell.
Trouble is, the pop-up has no electric brakes. I've learned from
reading thru this group that brakes are a GOOD THING, and I don't need
to be convinced.
This trailer expert of course is telling me that he's never heard of
anyone putting brakes on such a small trailer. He's checked the axle
on the pop-up and confirmed it will need a new axle that will accept
the brakes. Presumably he will order the axle from the
manufacturer(?).
But then he's saying that he would definitely not go with a 7" brake.
(He says a 7" brake is pretty useless - if he's going to put brakes on
this trailer, he'll put on effective brakes.) He's going to research
it, but he thinks he'd go with larger wheels - to 13" from the stock
12" - in order to accomodate a larger brake.
He's going to research all this and let me know what can be done in a
day or two. Even if it costs $600 to install a new axle with brakes
on this trailer, which is his guestimate, the price still would be
almost a $1000 less than any of the competition.
A) Buy the trailer at $4,100 and find someone else to do the brakes.
B) Let this trailer guy do what he thinks is best regarding wheel size
and brake size and trust him to do the right thing.
C) Forget the whole thing and buy a similar trailer with factory
installed brakes for between $5,500 and $6,000
If A, where in the world can I find someone who can install brakes on
the new Flagstaff? Flagstaff/Rockwood dealers are almost non-existent
in this area.
B worries me too, because the trailer-guy is telling me he's never
seen brakes on such a small trailer. I'm a bit worried that if
there's a problem, he'll give a big "I told you so", instead of
support. On the other hand, they seem like completely honest people
who've been in the trailer business for over 30 years, and who are
running a thriving business.
Thanks in advance...
William Boyd
2004-06-27 18:03:45 UTC
Permalink
http://www.popuptimes.com/archives/towinglaws.asp
http://www.popuptimes.com/links.asp
http://www.rvsafety.com/new_page_1.htm
I'm sure you have been to some of these web sites but they can be
important for less experienced folks. Cheers and Have a great time. BILL
Post by s***@users.sf.net
I'm looking to buy my first pop-up. The tow vehicle is a 97 Plymouth
Grand Voyager minivan with the 3.3 Liter engine, and the towing
package. I bought this van used a few years back, and it came with a
brake controller.
I know this isn't much of a tow vehicle, so I want to keep the pop-up
as small as possible. I'm looking at a brand new 8' bed Flagstaff (by
Forest River, who also produces the exact same trailer under the
Rockwood label). Dry weight is approximately 1300 pounds.
We really like this trailer, and can get it for the unbelievable
price of $4,100, which includes a 3-way fridge, furnace, heated
mattress pads, etc. (In comparison, the going rate for 8ft trailers
similarly equipped seems to be $5,500 to $6,000 in this area.) The
reason for the "fire sale" pricing is that this well-established
trailer dealer wants to get out of the pop-up business to concentrate
on what they do best - heavy duty horse trailers, toy haulers, and
utility trailers. This pop-up is the last on the lot, and the last
they'll ever sell.
Trouble is, the pop-up has no electric brakes. I've learned from
reading thru this group that brakes are a GOOD THING, and I don't need
to be convinced.
This trailer expert of course is telling me that he's never heard of
anyone putting brakes on such a small trailer. He's checked the axle
on the pop-up and confirmed it will need a new axle that will accept
the brakes. Presumably he will order the axle from the
manufacturer(?).
But then he's saying that he would definitely not go with a 7" brake.
(He says a 7" brake is pretty useless - if he's going to put brakes on
this trailer, he'll put on effective brakes.) He's going to research
it, but he thinks he'd go with larger wheels - to 13" from the stock
12" - in order to accomodate a larger brake.
He's going to research all this and let me know what can be done in a
day or two. Even if it costs $600 to install a new axle with brakes
on this trailer, which is his guestimate, the price still would be
almost a $1000 less than any of the competition.
A) Buy the trailer at $4,100 and find someone else to do the brakes.
B) Let this trailer guy do what he thinks is best regarding wheel size
and brake size and trust him to do the right thing.
C) Forget the whole thing and buy a similar trailer with factory
installed brakes for between $5,500 and $6,000
If A, where in the world can I find someone who can install brakes on
the new Flagstaff? Flagstaff/Rockwood dealers are almost non-existent
in this area.
B worries me too, because the trailer-guy is telling me he's never
seen brakes on such a small trailer. I'm a bit worried that if
there's a problem, he'll give a big "I told you so", instead of
support. On the other hand, they seem like completely honest people
who've been in the trailer business for over 30 years, and who are
running a thriving business.
Thanks in advance...
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